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Bruce

Blow my mind

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I love that realization that you don't really know anything at all. Whether it's quantum mechanics, cosmology, conspiracy theories, or even religion, I love it as an intellectual exercise. Go ahead, blow my mind.

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On 2/2/2018 at 12:49 AM, Bruce said:

I love that realization that you don't really know anything at all. Whether it's quantum mechanics, cosmology, conspiracy theories, or even religion, I love it as an intellectual exercise. Go ahead, blow my mind.

 

In music, notes are given letters.....A, B, C, D, E, F and G.

In German music however, Bb (B flat) is B and B natural is H. Therefore when Johann Sebastian Bach wrote music, he was able to write his own last name into his music..........

Bb-A-C-H (B natural)..............This is known as the BACH Motif.  Bach himself wrote it into his own music to spell his own name. 

And if that was not enough.......Bach also used the numbers in his music (the numbered piece it was, the measure number or the number of parts in a particular piece to write our words in a 1=a 2=b pattern. The number 7 stands for perfection and completeness (in Christian theology), and this is doubtless relevant. We know that Bach also made use of this number doubled, 14 being the sum of the letters of his name (B+A+C+H = 2+1+3+8). I wonder if it is also relevant that this cantata was composed in 1734, when Bach reached the age of 49 (7x7).

n the Symbolum Nicenum of the B-minor Mass (BWV 232), consider the two movements, "Credo in unum Deum" and "Patrem omnipotentem"
The total number of measures/bars for these two movements: 129
Apply gematria: C(3)+R(7)+E(5)+D(4)+O(14) = 43
The number 129 comes from (43 + 43 + 43) X 3 3 = Triune God
The word 'Credo' is sung 7 X 7 = 49 times
The phrase 'in unum Deum' is sung 7 X 12 = 84 times
At the end of the fugue in "Patrem omnipotentem" Bach inserts in his own hand the total number of measures/bars: 84 = (permutation: C=3 X A=1 X (B=2,H=8) the letters BACH rearranged, but this is permissible, as well as combining the B and H into one number as he did here) 12 X 7 = 84 a combination of time and eternity!

What is the total number of measures/bars in the next two movements, "Et in unum Dominum" and "Et incarnatus est"? You guessed correctly: 129 And there are still another two instances in the mass of total measures having the same result: 129. Is this getting boring?

One last example, before I put you to sleep entirely. Are you still there?

The first prelude and fugue to Book I of the Well-Tempered Clavier:
Remember BACH=14 !!
There are 549 notes in the prelude and 734 in the fugue and the sum of both is 1283. So what? Well, 1=A; 2=B; 8=H; 3=C ; rearrange the letters and what do you get? Yup!
How many notes in the fugal theme: 14 = BACH
How many entries does this theme have: 24 an indication of how many preludes and fugues are to follow in this book of the Well-Tempered Clavier. Clever, isn't this? And this analysis goes on and on.

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@Shiggy I need to break this down to wrap my head around it, so let's start small. I'm intrigued, but I've never really understood how it (would it be called numerology?) is more than a coincidence. If we say a=1, b=2, etc, what's that have to do with anything? How are any conclusions based on that system any more than a coincidence? Is it the English alphabet, the German alphabet, or is the claim that it would work for any language?

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8 minutes ago, Bruce said:

@Shiggy I need to break this down to wrap my head around it, so let's start small. I'm intrigued, but I've never really understood how it (would it be called numerology?) is more than a coincidence. If we say a=1, b=2, etc, what's that have to do with anything? How are any conclusions based on that system any more than a coincidence? Is it the English alphabet, the German alphabet, or is the claim that it would work for any language?

 

Yes numerology is correct.

It works in German I believe (which was his language and he would not have known English. If it was only in English, it would make it easier to pass off as coincidence). It is known as a fact that Bach did purposefully put numbers into his music (especially the numbers  14 and 41 because they were derived from the mystical numerology values of the letters in his own name. We're not quite sure how that ended up as 'Air on a G-string', but his works are littered with references to those numbers. 

As for other patterns, some might call it coincidence, but there is historical evidence that he intentionally created the BACH motif as well as adding certain numbers as I said above. I think it would be hard based on knowing that to say that the others were simply coincidence....especially since some of them were quite complicated and had to do with super detailed knowledge of music, the circle of fifths and other patterns that are specific to music alone. 
 

 

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4 minutes ago, Shiggy said:

 

Yes numerology is correct.

It works in German I believe (which was his language). It is known as a fact that Bach did purposfully put numbers into his music (especially the numbers  14 and 41 because they were derived from the mystical numerology values of the letters in his own name. We're not quite sure how that ended up as 'Air on a G-string', but his works are littered with references to those numbers. 

As for other patterns, some might call it coincidence, but there is historical evidence that he intentionally created the BACH motif as well as adding certain numbers as I said above. I think it would be hard based on knowing that to say that the others were simply coincidence....especially since some of them were quite complicated and had to do with super detailed knowledge of music, the circle of fifths and other patterns that are specific to music alone. 
 

 

Okay, I can go along with you so far. A couple more questions if you don't mind. When folks talk about numerology, it seems to also have a certain religious or supernatural connotation. Is this accurate? Where's the basis for this belief that certain numbers may add power to something? More pertinent to this current conversation, what was Bach trying to achieve by incorporating certain numbers?

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Just now, Bruce said:

Okay, I can go along with you so far. A couple more questions if you don't mind. When folks talk about numerology, it seems to also have a certain religious or supernatural connotation. Is this accurate? Where's the basis for this belief that certain numbers may add power to something? More pertinent to this current conversation, what was Bach trying to achieve by trying to incorporate certain numbers?

 Yes sometimes.....usually thinking that it is some sort of code (like the people who try and use numerology to predict the date of the apocalypse)

But I see this as different than some sort of Da Vinci code. I do not think there is any significance or conspiracy to why he put in those patterns other than he was a genius and he found it entertaining to throw it in there. 

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1 minute ago, Shiggy said:

 Yes sometimes.....usually thinking that it is some sort of code (like the people who try and use numerology to predict the date of the apocalypse)

But I see this as different than some sort of Da Vinci code. I do not think there is any significance or conspiracy to why he put in those patterns other than he was a genius and he found it entertaining to throw it in there. 

That makes sense. Just for kicks I'd probably do the same if there was a musical note R. xD

 

It reminds me of those games/challenges where you try to incorporate certain random words into a single story.

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